Shapiro, RFK Jr. spar over measles and vaccines

HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy has expressed doubts about the two deaths.

Pennsylvania's Democratic governor, Josh Shapiro, and federal health officials --including Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. -- are publicly sparring over the announcement of two measles-associated deaths amid the ongoing outbreak in the state.

The ensuing insults launched between Shapiro and Kennedy happened both on social media and during separate press conferences this week.

At a press conference on Tuesday announcing the two deaths, Shapiro criticized Kennedy and the Trump administration.

"His [Kennedy's] actions and the rhetoric that's coming from this administration are having a negative impact on communities across, particularly right here in Pennsylvania," Shapiro said, adding that "there's real-life consequences to spreading misinformation."

In response to Shapiro on Wednesday, Kennedy said: "We're trying to get information about those two... um ... casualties," making a gesture to signify quotation marks as he spoke at a press conference in Tampa, Florida.

Pennsylvania officials said this week the two people who died -- the first measles-associated deaths in the U.S. this year and the first such deaths reported in the state in 35 years -- were unvaccinated residents of Lancaster County. Pennsylvania health department officials confirmed on Wednesday that one of the measles-associated deaths was an infant.

Kennedy's public spat with Shapiro then escalated when he continued to suggest online -- without evidence -- that the state's deaths being linked to measles could be inaccurate.

"The announcement appears to have been premature, and the deaths may even have been altogether fabricated by one of the Governor's hopeful staffers," Kennedy wrote on X.

The state's health department said it classifies a death as "measles-associated" when there is evidence of measles, either through laboratory testing or epidemiological links. The ultimate cause of death is still under investigation by the Lancaster County coroner. ABC News reached out to the county coroner but hasn't heard back.

"The Lancaster County Coroner says that it has no record of any measles deaths," Kennedy continued, adding "State law requires that all measles deaths be reported to the coroner."

However, the state's health secretary Debra Bogen pushed back on this assertion, writing on on X: "I have thoroughly reviewed the case investigation information and sadly can confirm that there were two recent measles-associated deaths in Lancaster County, which were reported to the CDC's measles response team early Tuesday morning."

Bogen also said that she is meeting regularly with CDC staff about the outbreak.

The CDC typically needs to be invited by state governments in order to assist in public health issues on the ground. Sometimes states will not request or accept assistance as was the case in a recent measles outbreak in South Carolina last year.

States may not request or accept federal assistance due to a variety of reasons, including when they believe they can manage the issue on their own or feel federal guidance may have different social or economic interests or may be influenced by political pressure. Some states have joined forces to create regional health alliances during Kennedy’s leadership of the HHS.

In a social media statement on Thursday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said the state has declined the agency's offers of assistance and also said the state has not provided the agency with information about the outbreak.

The CDC is an agency under the HHS, which Kennedy runs.

"We appreciate Secretary Kennedy’s efforts to clarify conflicting information from Pennsylvania officials about whether the two reported deaths were caused by measles," the CDC statement said. "CDC is working to determine what actually occurred. These discrepancies raise important questions, particularly because the Governor’s Office has not provided CDC with information relevant to the outbreak and has declined our offers of assistance."

In a response on social media, the Pennsylvania Health Department said it was "inaccurate" to suggest the state had not provided information about the measles outbreak to the CDC or declined to work with the federal agency.

In the statement, the state health department said it was in regular contact with CDC staff and reports weekly cases to the federal agency.

In addition to their public remarks, Shapiro and Kennedy also exchanged words in a private phone call on Tuesday before Shapiro's press conference discussing the deaths in Pennsylvania. In the call, Shapiro said he criticized Kennedy and the Trump administration's vaccine rhetoric just days after Trump signed an executive order aiming to overhaul the childhood vaccine schedule.

Later during his public remarks, Shapiro said Kennedy reached out to him to offer staff to assist Pennsylvania with the measles outbreak.

Vaccine history

Amid pressure from elected officials and public health experts, Kennedy has recently been saying the MMR vaccine is the best way to prevent measles. At the press conference in Tampa on Wednesday, he concluded "our advice is that people should get the measles vaccination."

But in 2021, he can be seen on video, posted by Children's Health Defense, speaking to the Amish community in Lancaster County -- in part questioning vaccines and downplaying the risks of measles.

"I am a measles survivor. It was extraordinary luck. Very, very lucky to have lived through that nightmare because we had to stay at home and watch TV the whole week with all of my brothers and sisters. It was ... horrible. And, oh, what is the cure? What is the cure for measles? Your measles is chicken soup and vitamin A," Kennedy is seen saying in the video.

It's a sentiment he shared frequently over the years while speaking of his skepticism of the safety and efficacy of the vaccine.

About 1 in 5 unvaccinated people in the U.S. who get measles are hospitalized, CDC data shows. As many as 1 in every 20 children will get pneumonia, and 1 in every 1,000 children will get encephalitis, a swelling of the brain.

So far this year, the state has recorded over 400 measles cases, Pennsylvania's health department data shows.

Shapiro said that this is the largest measles outbreak in the state since 1992.

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